Tom Larkin - Homesurgery Recordings
Questions: Karen Lowe
You may know him as the drummer from Shihad. But Tom Larkin is much more than just a drummer. For the last ten years he has been helping other bands get off the ground and helping their careers through recording at Homesurgery Recordings, management and artist development. Located in Melbourne’s iconic suburb of Brunswick, the studio was founded in 2007 and since then, has recorded albums for acts like Calling All Cars, Young and The Restless and High Tension, just to name a few.
Caught in the Mosh spoke to Tom about the name change from The Studios in the City to Homesurgery Recordings, artist development and how what can go wrong in the studio, will go wrong.
First up, you are celebrating your ten-year anniversary and just had a name change from The Studios in the City to Homesurgery Recordings. What prompted the name change?
There were a couple of things. First of all, I had developed a management company that had the name Homesurgery and this year I merged the companies and became a duel umbrella. One of the things that had kicked off and had happened though... And for the management company, the artists that would record with us would refer to us as Homesurgery. And it was kind of a half way joke that we had and we sort of just gave it a name, went back and was like hmm I don't know about that.
It was a mouthful and it was hard for people to say and remember. We just felt like the name itself was difficult and also given for ten years it was holding the Homesurgery name down on one end but wasn't really an appropriate name to wrap around the studio for two reasons.
The first reason is that the studio is designed to be comfortable, designed to be like an artist workshop. Its suppose to feel like, for all intents and purposes, like a futuristic lounge room. Its suppose to feel comfortable. You're supposed to feel at home. Its not suppose to feel like a clinical lab. But at the same time, you know we are really, really passionate about the sound and the recordings.
That means you have to be on-point in terms of your equipment and in terms of how you make sure everything works properly; that you have a really high quality and you actually deliver for the artist and make something that makes them proud. So what it comes down to, is that we want acts that will record with us and go to their friends and peers and impress them with what they’ve done at our facility.
That, for us, is our primary goal with what we want to do and what we want to give away. So those two words – on one hand you've got the homeliness and the ability to feel relaxed and the environment that supports art, and on the other hand we’ve got that attention to detail. We've got that focus on delivering something really impressive, so those two words Homesurgery work together really well.
You have worked with some incredible bands over the years. What have been some of your favourite projects?
There has been a number and with that you gain something and I gain something with every project. So really thinking back on it, the ones that really stand out are things like High Tension, The Young and the Restless, which was Karina from High Tension's first band, who went on to win the J Award that year and that was the first recording that we ever did.
We’ve done things for bands like North East Party House; we’ve worked with Closure in Moscow; we’ve worked with all these type of bands, so there have been many, many high profile bands. But on the other side of it, we often do work with bands that are independent. Bands that come in and need someone to believe in them and support them and that for us, is often a very, very strong part of what we do on a day-to-day basis - record people who love music, who want to build something and walk away with something that they can be proud of.
The music industry and the profile attracted to the music industry means that we record bands over and over that don't generate a profile but are amazing bands and I think all studios have that as well. Just as much as those bands are our highlights, you know, we’ve done some great successful records and all that kind of thing, but we are also very grateful towards any band that we are able to work with.
Have there been times where things just haven't gone to plan, whether through something the bands have done, equipment failure or just general comedy of errors? And if so, how have you got things back on track?
Well, I think... Well, of course! (laughs) The thing is, there's many things that come to focus within a recording studio and a lot of the time it puts people’s personalities to the very limit of their tolerance at times. And that may be because someone is sharing something truly intimate and something that they have never expressed to anyone else in their world.
At the same time you may have a situation where the band or producers haven't worked together very well. You may have situations where people of genre are completely different. And probably the hardest one is when you've got someone in the band wants to make one kind of a record and then someone else in the band wants to make another kind of record and they have two completely different ideas about how to get around that. That is a very difficult situation and completely different from discussing creativity or ideas.
I'm a big proponent of the idea that there are two different types of arguments that you have throughout the creative process. One is an argument about the material. And arguments about material, and how it should be, are robust and healthy and exactly what should be going on, because it's the kind of environment people should be pushing for - what they want creatively - and it should be passionate.
But then we have arguments about agendas and the different ideas of what people want to get out of the whole thing; those become much more difficult arguments, though there are a couple of solutions to that.
I make a very clear decision that if a band comes in and they want me to be their producer, then I've gotta be (and I think this is the same for Sam and Jon) we kind of have to be the fifth member of the band, the fourth member of the band or whatever – we are a co-creating artist.
If they need something recorded really well, we step back from that point and offer performance coaching and tips and just try to do the best job possible and make it sound great. And I think one of the things that we’ve learnt is that we’ve gotta define which one it is before we get into the studio. We’ve gotta define it very, very clearly. And the artist needs to understand what their actually asking for, because there are a lot of people who kind of hire you as a producer and just want you to record them. If you know what I mean.
And there’s people who just want you to record them, who want to sound great and it's kind of like, well, it may actually mean that they need to deliver something that sounds great themselves. We can’t record something that is inherently not there, so they actually need that support and coaching to deliver better performances. And that really comes down to the production team. So the band needs to be really clear about what they want throughout the recording process. In terms of heading off disasters? We're much more deliberate and ask tougher questions upfront about the projects we get, so we can sort all of that stuff out.
In terms of disasters that we’ve had? Well, we had the studio flood! I remember when we were recording The Young and the Restless. Tt was around the Black Saturday fires that we had here in Melbourne. We would be recording and we would be boiling and the power would go down for days just randomly and we wouldn't know if we had lost any of the recordings for days.
So multiple times we have had those kinds of things. We’ve had a guitarist just kind of look at us like 'I've gotta go' and walk out on the studio and not turn up for a day. The lesson in these kinds of things that happen inside of a recording studio is, it's a world where you need to work and often times work around people's strongest vulnerabilities, so there is always sort of gonna be these kinds of things.
What we aim to do is to provide a comfortable place to work and we try and make sure that you know that the things that may present difficulties within a recording are well highlighted before the process and that everyone is on the same page.
Caught in the Mosh spoke to Tom about the name change from The Studios in the City to Homesurgery Recordings, artist development and how what can go wrong in the studio, will go wrong.
First up, you are celebrating your ten-year anniversary and just had a name change from The Studios in the City to Homesurgery Recordings. What prompted the name change?
There were a couple of things. First of all, I had developed a management company that had the name Homesurgery and this year I merged the companies and became a duel umbrella. One of the things that had kicked off and had happened though... And for the management company, the artists that would record with us would refer to us as Homesurgery. And it was kind of a half way joke that we had and we sort of just gave it a name, went back and was like hmm I don't know about that.
It was a mouthful and it was hard for people to say and remember. We just felt like the name itself was difficult and also given for ten years it was holding the Homesurgery name down on one end but wasn't really an appropriate name to wrap around the studio for two reasons.
The first reason is that the studio is designed to be comfortable, designed to be like an artist workshop. Its suppose to feel like, for all intents and purposes, like a futuristic lounge room. Its suppose to feel comfortable. You're supposed to feel at home. Its not suppose to feel like a clinical lab. But at the same time, you know we are really, really passionate about the sound and the recordings.
That means you have to be on-point in terms of your equipment and in terms of how you make sure everything works properly; that you have a really high quality and you actually deliver for the artist and make something that makes them proud. So what it comes down to, is that we want acts that will record with us and go to their friends and peers and impress them with what they’ve done at our facility.
That, for us, is our primary goal with what we want to do and what we want to give away. So those two words – on one hand you've got the homeliness and the ability to feel relaxed and the environment that supports art, and on the other hand we’ve got that attention to detail. We've got that focus on delivering something really impressive, so those two words Homesurgery work together really well.
You have worked with some incredible bands over the years. What have been some of your favourite projects?
There has been a number and with that you gain something and I gain something with every project. So really thinking back on it, the ones that really stand out are things like High Tension, The Young and the Restless, which was Karina from High Tension's first band, who went on to win the J Award that year and that was the first recording that we ever did.
We’ve done things for bands like North East Party House; we’ve worked with Closure in Moscow; we’ve worked with all these type of bands, so there have been many, many high profile bands. But on the other side of it, we often do work with bands that are independent. Bands that come in and need someone to believe in them and support them and that for us, is often a very, very strong part of what we do on a day-to-day basis - record people who love music, who want to build something and walk away with something that they can be proud of.
The music industry and the profile attracted to the music industry means that we record bands over and over that don't generate a profile but are amazing bands and I think all studios have that as well. Just as much as those bands are our highlights, you know, we’ve done some great successful records and all that kind of thing, but we are also very grateful towards any band that we are able to work with.
Have there been times where things just haven't gone to plan, whether through something the bands have done, equipment failure or just general comedy of errors? And if so, how have you got things back on track?
Well, I think... Well, of course! (laughs) The thing is, there's many things that come to focus within a recording studio and a lot of the time it puts people’s personalities to the very limit of their tolerance at times. And that may be because someone is sharing something truly intimate and something that they have never expressed to anyone else in their world.
At the same time you may have a situation where the band or producers haven't worked together very well. You may have situations where people of genre are completely different. And probably the hardest one is when you've got someone in the band wants to make one kind of a record and then someone else in the band wants to make another kind of record and they have two completely different ideas about how to get around that. That is a very difficult situation and completely different from discussing creativity or ideas.
I'm a big proponent of the idea that there are two different types of arguments that you have throughout the creative process. One is an argument about the material. And arguments about material, and how it should be, are robust and healthy and exactly what should be going on, because it's the kind of environment people should be pushing for - what they want creatively - and it should be passionate.
But then we have arguments about agendas and the different ideas of what people want to get out of the whole thing; those become much more difficult arguments, though there are a couple of solutions to that.
I make a very clear decision that if a band comes in and they want me to be their producer, then I've gotta be (and I think this is the same for Sam and Jon) we kind of have to be the fifth member of the band, the fourth member of the band or whatever – we are a co-creating artist.
If they need something recorded really well, we step back from that point and offer performance coaching and tips and just try to do the best job possible and make it sound great. And I think one of the things that we’ve learnt is that we’ve gotta define which one it is before we get into the studio. We’ve gotta define it very, very clearly. And the artist needs to understand what their actually asking for, because there are a lot of people who kind of hire you as a producer and just want you to record them. If you know what I mean.
And there’s people who just want you to record them, who want to sound great and it's kind of like, well, it may actually mean that they need to deliver something that sounds great themselves. We can’t record something that is inherently not there, so they actually need that support and coaching to deliver better performances. And that really comes down to the production team. So the band needs to be really clear about what they want throughout the recording process. In terms of heading off disasters? We're much more deliberate and ask tougher questions upfront about the projects we get, so we can sort all of that stuff out.
In terms of disasters that we’ve had? Well, we had the studio flood! I remember when we were recording The Young and the Restless. Tt was around the Black Saturday fires that we had here in Melbourne. We would be recording and we would be boiling and the power would go down for days just randomly and we wouldn't know if we had lost any of the recordings for days.
So multiple times we have had those kinds of things. We’ve had a guitarist just kind of look at us like 'I've gotta go' and walk out on the studio and not turn up for a day. The lesson in these kinds of things that happen inside of a recording studio is, it's a world where you need to work and often times work around people's strongest vulnerabilities, so there is always sort of gonna be these kinds of things.
What we aim to do is to provide a comfortable place to work and we try and make sure that you know that the things that may present difficulties within a recording are well highlighted before the process and that everyone is on the same page.
You have worked alongside other great producers. Is there someone that you haven't worked with yet that you really want to do a project with?
I’m one that one would call an ‘older gentleman’ these days (laughs). There’s a producer called Michael Beinhorn from the 1990’s who I would really love to watch from progress end with. I’d love to work with Steve Albini at some stage. He's not really a producer but he's a fantastic engineer and I really admire all of his work.
I’m kind of a dichotomy in that I have a lot of producers who I really like, who make really strongly indie, uncut, raw recordings and then others who make things that sound totally disgusting and I love them and others who kind of do what I call really Hollywood style recordings. Guys like Blockbuster recordings...
In the same vein, are there any bands that you would really love to work with in particular?
I hate that question actually! It's not so much the wrong question but it's just so fucking difficult to answer because its like you're buying part of one act. I would dearly love to do a live rock version of some of the bands that perhaps have a more of an electronic thing in their music and to see how that would work and how that would come out.
One band that comes to mind that are consistently impressive is a band from New Zealand called Shapeshifter. I would love to record them as one of the live bands and to hear what that would sound like. But that would be highly unlikely. But fuck, I would love to record fucking Violent Soho. That would be fucking amazing! But you know, there is just a list of bands I would love to record but often times... You know, that is one thing I have actually found which is quite interesting; I actually find that I don't have the most success with bands that I truly, truly love and admire.
We’ve had a couple of bands in where I've loved everything that they do, but have actually found that it kind of makes me lazy and I enjoy it so much that I’m not really bringing my A Game. I much prefer it when I can bring my A Game to the table, where I can hear some gaps and things, where things could move to and if I like it too much then there's nothing to do . I just gotta record it.
That's the thing. I find myself in a weird position where I'm not problem solving something I like. And I’m good at problem solving. That’s my strength. So that to me would be the one thing that kind of typifies that. I suppose the long ended version is that I don't want to record the bands that I really want to record. I’m probably not going to do as good of a job with a band that I like. But with a band that I feel could do better and where I could bring something to the table because, I do much better work that way.
You also run a management company VVV MGMT and artist development agency, SIGNAL. What led you into managing bands and developing artists? Just a natural progression through Shihad?
Yeah, look, with all that it was recording bands and then bands that I'd record would ask what we could do with this and then I would go, well, I know what? You could do this, and that’s how I started as a manager really.
Artist development is really more of a... Well, more on the management thing further down the year, we’re gonna make some cool announcements around that. But artist development is my overall passion honestly.
After being in the music industry for 30 years, I’ve really started to see some... Well, there's a difference between certain artists who go on for a long term career and ones that don't. I've always seen differences in how the music industry evolves and I also feel like the music industry has many special qualities. But of course, some of those special qualities also leave huge gaps in awareness.
What I have done with the artist development company is that I find that information and find those awareness gaps and provide a platform for coaching artists into building a robust business around a creative output.
And for those who haven't heard of it before, what is the concept behind artist development? From your website, it looks like a very involved process.
Very simply, artist development is about coaching. It’s the same thing a footballer would get when they've got a talent and an ability and sooner or later they gotta get a coach, gotta learn team work. And they're going to learn personal development. They're going to learn all of that stuff and when they learn that, they become a better player.
The thing that I find with the music industry is this - the collision between art and maths. Nine times out of ten, people who are really good at art, really don't like maths and I think that what that part of that kind of thing is, that there are practices you can put in place to have way higher creative output and to find your own voice as an artist creatively.
That isn't out of step with building the kind of standard small micro businesses infrastructure around that and being able to understand how your music operates as a business without that business side swallowing and taking away from your creative vision and your creative output.
I think that is a really important balance and one that is really hard for artists to find a place through it and I think that's really what kind of artist development is about. The music industry has always been about artists that develop their song writing and it's about people's live performances, touring and their branding. And marketing and how they present themselves. And how they wrap the creative around that.
That's a huge part of it. But I think I come from it going; here is the way to protect what you really are and how to do all of that creative stuff and grow your ability and talents and find new corners and areas of inspiration whilst in this environment that needs to support that art on a financial level but also in terms of being able to give you opportunity and being able to give you partnerships that help you grow your art. And often times, that is about finding partners that can do the stuff that you're not so good at.
I’m one that one would call an ‘older gentleman’ these days (laughs). There’s a producer called Michael Beinhorn from the 1990’s who I would really love to watch from progress end with. I’d love to work with Steve Albini at some stage. He's not really a producer but he's a fantastic engineer and I really admire all of his work.
I’m kind of a dichotomy in that I have a lot of producers who I really like, who make really strongly indie, uncut, raw recordings and then others who make things that sound totally disgusting and I love them and others who kind of do what I call really Hollywood style recordings. Guys like Blockbuster recordings...
In the same vein, are there any bands that you would really love to work with in particular?
I hate that question actually! It's not so much the wrong question but it's just so fucking difficult to answer because its like you're buying part of one act. I would dearly love to do a live rock version of some of the bands that perhaps have a more of an electronic thing in their music and to see how that would work and how that would come out.
One band that comes to mind that are consistently impressive is a band from New Zealand called Shapeshifter. I would love to record them as one of the live bands and to hear what that would sound like. But that would be highly unlikely. But fuck, I would love to record fucking Violent Soho. That would be fucking amazing! But you know, there is just a list of bands I would love to record but often times... You know, that is one thing I have actually found which is quite interesting; I actually find that I don't have the most success with bands that I truly, truly love and admire.
We’ve had a couple of bands in where I've loved everything that they do, but have actually found that it kind of makes me lazy and I enjoy it so much that I’m not really bringing my A Game. I much prefer it when I can bring my A Game to the table, where I can hear some gaps and things, where things could move to and if I like it too much then there's nothing to do . I just gotta record it.
That's the thing. I find myself in a weird position where I'm not problem solving something I like. And I’m good at problem solving. That’s my strength. So that to me would be the one thing that kind of typifies that. I suppose the long ended version is that I don't want to record the bands that I really want to record. I’m probably not going to do as good of a job with a band that I like. But with a band that I feel could do better and where I could bring something to the table because, I do much better work that way.
You also run a management company VVV MGMT and artist development agency, SIGNAL. What led you into managing bands and developing artists? Just a natural progression through Shihad?
Yeah, look, with all that it was recording bands and then bands that I'd record would ask what we could do with this and then I would go, well, I know what? You could do this, and that’s how I started as a manager really.
Artist development is really more of a... Well, more on the management thing further down the year, we’re gonna make some cool announcements around that. But artist development is my overall passion honestly.
After being in the music industry for 30 years, I’ve really started to see some... Well, there's a difference between certain artists who go on for a long term career and ones that don't. I've always seen differences in how the music industry evolves and I also feel like the music industry has many special qualities. But of course, some of those special qualities also leave huge gaps in awareness.
What I have done with the artist development company is that I find that information and find those awareness gaps and provide a platform for coaching artists into building a robust business around a creative output.
And for those who haven't heard of it before, what is the concept behind artist development? From your website, it looks like a very involved process.
Very simply, artist development is about coaching. It’s the same thing a footballer would get when they've got a talent and an ability and sooner or later they gotta get a coach, gotta learn team work. And they're going to learn personal development. They're going to learn all of that stuff and when they learn that, they become a better player.
The thing that I find with the music industry is this - the collision between art and maths. Nine times out of ten, people who are really good at art, really don't like maths and I think that what that part of that kind of thing is, that there are practices you can put in place to have way higher creative output and to find your own voice as an artist creatively.
That isn't out of step with building the kind of standard small micro businesses infrastructure around that and being able to understand how your music operates as a business without that business side swallowing and taking away from your creative vision and your creative output.
I think that is a really important balance and one that is really hard for artists to find a place through it and I think that's really what kind of artist development is about. The music industry has always been about artists that develop their song writing and it's about people's live performances, touring and their branding. And marketing and how they present themselves. And how they wrap the creative around that.
That's a huge part of it. But I think I come from it going; here is the way to protect what you really are and how to do all of that creative stuff and grow your ability and talents and find new corners and areas of inspiration whilst in this environment that needs to support that art on a financial level but also in terms of being able to give you opportunity and being able to give you partnerships that help you grow your art. And often times, that is about finding partners that can do the stuff that you're not so good at.
Speaking of Shihad, are you guys in the process of writing new material?
We have written a whole bunch of material. We’re not doing anything until August when we are finalising and releasing the new album and stuff we have written. There’s a whole bunch of stuff for it, so it’s lights out until August for Shihad.
Shihad fans tend to be extremely loyal and have more than likely seen you guys play many times. Why do you think this and how can new bands earn that same kind of love?
Let me see... I’ll give you a couple of things. The first one would be you've got to bridge the gap with the people who come to your shows. You can't afford to hide behind whatever you have created. You can't hide behind it. You've gotta have a love for the people who support you. And I think if you're not doing it with that intent then it becomes very difficult for you to maintain a long term career. It’s one of those things about it as artists, it's a part of your happiness to acknowledge that you've got these people who are there to support you is primary right.
The second thing would be how you treat them when they are around you. We’ve had periods when we’ve had people treated within our world, in particular when we were younger and entitled, treated very badly. I think that one thing that stands out over time is that really, it's not all about winning; it's actually about slowly generating a mass of people that want you to win. And there’s no difference between talking to someone right now for an interview and talking to someone who is a really big fan of yours or talking to someone you admire, who likes your art.
So I think in all of those interactions that you have, whether it’s someone doing the door for you or whether it's a fucking fan who has a tatt; whether it is your manager; whether it is someone on the label who is handling some promo thing or it is someone who is setting up mics at the rehearsal or helping you unload some gear. I think you've got to work with them all of them and treat them all really well. And if you do that enough and you stand out, people will want you to have success.
That means some of the times that you'll be given an opportunity because they have a choice and they'll make the choice with the people who treat them well. And I just think its a better way to live. I think being entitled and treating people like shit is a fucked way to live your life. It’s difficult and it creates shit. I know the media likes it and it kind of plays to the rock n' roll narrative but in real terms it's just horrible to live. So there’s that.
Lastly, the two things would be: One - to stay together, stick it out. There’s that. And I have noticed in our band, over the last 30 years, there have only been five times that someone hasn't turned up to a flight on time. So showing up and being committed and being there is a big, big deal.
For the last one, I would say is you gotta create great music! You gotta be in it for that. You've gotta have something in your gut that you love about the music that you play. And that you want to celebrate and share it with others and that you are determined to be better and doing it every time, learning something more and adding something more one of the things that we have always done is to entertain ourselves through our music. We’ve gotta love what were doing! We’ve gotta feel that what we’re playing is enjoyable and that we can celebrate it. It's the primary thing we do as it’s super important.
After years of playing around NZ and Australia, what would be your biggest tip for new bands starting out?
The biggest tip for bands starting out - just concentrate on your songs. And what I heard from Ben Harper the other day is, a lot of practice if you want to be a great guitarist (laughs). Learn your instruments as soon as you can play it. Like you're riding a bike. Then learn how to play songs.
We have written a whole bunch of material. We’re not doing anything until August when we are finalising and releasing the new album and stuff we have written. There’s a whole bunch of stuff for it, so it’s lights out until August for Shihad.
Shihad fans tend to be extremely loyal and have more than likely seen you guys play many times. Why do you think this and how can new bands earn that same kind of love?
Let me see... I’ll give you a couple of things. The first one would be you've got to bridge the gap with the people who come to your shows. You can't afford to hide behind whatever you have created. You can't hide behind it. You've gotta have a love for the people who support you. And I think if you're not doing it with that intent then it becomes very difficult for you to maintain a long term career. It’s one of those things about it as artists, it's a part of your happiness to acknowledge that you've got these people who are there to support you is primary right.
The second thing would be how you treat them when they are around you. We’ve had periods when we’ve had people treated within our world, in particular when we were younger and entitled, treated very badly. I think that one thing that stands out over time is that really, it's not all about winning; it's actually about slowly generating a mass of people that want you to win. And there’s no difference between talking to someone right now for an interview and talking to someone who is a really big fan of yours or talking to someone you admire, who likes your art.
So I think in all of those interactions that you have, whether it’s someone doing the door for you or whether it's a fucking fan who has a tatt; whether it is your manager; whether it is someone on the label who is handling some promo thing or it is someone who is setting up mics at the rehearsal or helping you unload some gear. I think you've got to work with them all of them and treat them all really well. And if you do that enough and you stand out, people will want you to have success.
That means some of the times that you'll be given an opportunity because they have a choice and they'll make the choice with the people who treat them well. And I just think its a better way to live. I think being entitled and treating people like shit is a fucked way to live your life. It’s difficult and it creates shit. I know the media likes it and it kind of plays to the rock n' roll narrative but in real terms it's just horrible to live. So there’s that.
Lastly, the two things would be: One - to stay together, stick it out. There’s that. And I have noticed in our band, over the last 30 years, there have only been five times that someone hasn't turned up to a flight on time. So showing up and being committed and being there is a big, big deal.
For the last one, I would say is you gotta create great music! You gotta be in it for that. You've gotta have something in your gut that you love about the music that you play. And that you want to celebrate and share it with others and that you are determined to be better and doing it every time, learning something more and adding something more one of the things that we have always done is to entertain ourselves through our music. We’ve gotta love what were doing! We’ve gotta feel that what we’re playing is enjoyable and that we can celebrate it. It's the primary thing we do as it’s super important.
After years of playing around NZ and Australia, what would be your biggest tip for new bands starting out?
The biggest tip for bands starting out - just concentrate on your songs. And what I heard from Ben Harper the other day is, a lot of practice if you want to be a great guitarist (laughs). Learn your instruments as soon as you can play it. Like you're riding a bike. Then learn how to play songs.