Gary Numan
Questions: Stuart Millen
English singer and musician, Gary Numan, is often considered one of the pioneers of
synth pop/electronic music. He has released 20 albums in a career spanning 35 years and is cited as an influence on artists ranging from Trent Reznor to Afrika Bambaataa. Having released his latest album Splinter (Songs from a Broken Mind) late last year, Numan returns to Australia this May for a run of dates around the country.
Calling in from his home in Los Angeles, Gary spoke openly and honestly to Caught in the Mosh about his own personal demons, working with Nine Inch Nails and the difficulties in performing emotional songs...
You’re about to hit our shores as part of the Splinter world tour. It was almost 30 years between Australian tours for you, now you’re here for the third time in five years. What’s changed?
Well... when I toured there the first time, things were going very well with my career. I went everywhere. I toured all over the world and it was all very exciting. But then fairly soon after that, things started to slide a little bit. I wasn’t a massive fan of touring in those days, that was something I didn’t really enjoy. Completely different now. This is the favourite thing I do now. But back then, it wasn’t the main thing for me. I was so worried about... I wanted to be a much better songwriter. Even though I had some success, number one albums and single and things, I still thought I had a long way to go as a songwriter. I did two world tours, I think it was, in the first year or so and I just thought it was the wrong thing to be doing. I wanted to go back to work in the studio. So I actually got out of touring. I thought I would retire from touring, concentrate on the song writing.
So I did the big shows in London in 1981. And that was meant to be me finishing with it. I did all that and made a big fuss about it, which was a mistake. And then when I came back from that, because I did realise I’d made a mistake, about a year of two later I came back and started doing it again. With the career, I’d taken a real downturn. And things were no way near as good as before. So I thought, what I should do is concentrate on Britain, rebuild my success in Britain and when I do that, I can start thinking about going back overseas again. This is a very brief explanation of much more complicated things, to be very honest... but that’s essentially what I did. And unfortunately, I never did get my career back on track. It just got worse! And worse and worse! And eventually, I was playing in tiny little places, only in Britain. My record sales had vanished completely. By 1991 I thought I was dead and buried! So I kind of went back to it as a hobby.
To cut a long story short, my music direction changed dramatically and I started to make much heavier, much darker music. Things started getting a little bit better and bit by bit, I started to inch my way up again. But it wasn’t until much, much later that I thought I was ready to go back overseas. I went to America, back into Europe and eventually I came back to Australia. So in some respects, it’s a sign of how my career went. But now that we are doing it again... I just did an American tour, which was really successful. I had great fun on that one. The last European tour, that I did a few months back, was the best European tour I’ve done in a long time. But all in all, things are getting better, but there’s still a long way to get back to where I was before. But I love it. I’m really enjoying touring. As I said, it’s been my favourite thing for a long, long time. Of all the things you do in a band, touring is by far the most exciting thing you can do. That’s pretty much it I’m afraid. My career was fucked for a while.
synth pop/electronic music. He has released 20 albums in a career spanning 35 years and is cited as an influence on artists ranging from Trent Reznor to Afrika Bambaataa. Having released his latest album Splinter (Songs from a Broken Mind) late last year, Numan returns to Australia this May for a run of dates around the country.
Calling in from his home in Los Angeles, Gary spoke openly and honestly to Caught in the Mosh about his own personal demons, working with Nine Inch Nails and the difficulties in performing emotional songs...
You’re about to hit our shores as part of the Splinter world tour. It was almost 30 years between Australian tours for you, now you’re here for the third time in five years. What’s changed?
Well... when I toured there the first time, things were going very well with my career. I went everywhere. I toured all over the world and it was all very exciting. But then fairly soon after that, things started to slide a little bit. I wasn’t a massive fan of touring in those days, that was something I didn’t really enjoy. Completely different now. This is the favourite thing I do now. But back then, it wasn’t the main thing for me. I was so worried about... I wanted to be a much better songwriter. Even though I had some success, number one albums and single and things, I still thought I had a long way to go as a songwriter. I did two world tours, I think it was, in the first year or so and I just thought it was the wrong thing to be doing. I wanted to go back to work in the studio. So I actually got out of touring. I thought I would retire from touring, concentrate on the song writing.
So I did the big shows in London in 1981. And that was meant to be me finishing with it. I did all that and made a big fuss about it, which was a mistake. And then when I came back from that, because I did realise I’d made a mistake, about a year of two later I came back and started doing it again. With the career, I’d taken a real downturn. And things were no way near as good as before. So I thought, what I should do is concentrate on Britain, rebuild my success in Britain and when I do that, I can start thinking about going back overseas again. This is a very brief explanation of much more complicated things, to be very honest... but that’s essentially what I did. And unfortunately, I never did get my career back on track. It just got worse! And worse and worse! And eventually, I was playing in tiny little places, only in Britain. My record sales had vanished completely. By 1991 I thought I was dead and buried! So I kind of went back to it as a hobby.
To cut a long story short, my music direction changed dramatically and I started to make much heavier, much darker music. Things started getting a little bit better and bit by bit, I started to inch my way up again. But it wasn’t until much, much later that I thought I was ready to go back overseas. I went to America, back into Europe and eventually I came back to Australia. So in some respects, it’s a sign of how my career went. But now that we are doing it again... I just did an American tour, which was really successful. I had great fun on that one. The last European tour, that I did a few months back, was the best European tour I’ve done in a long time. But all in all, things are getting better, but there’s still a long way to get back to where I was before. But I love it. I’m really enjoying touring. As I said, it’s been my favourite thing for a long, long time. Of all the things you do in a band, touring is by far the most exciting thing you can do. That’s pretty much it I’m afraid. My career was fucked for a while.
You released Splinter late last year, after quite a long gestation period. What lead to the long creative process?
Well, I think it was 2006 and an album called Jagged. We’d just had our second baby, just as that album came out. And my wife had post-natal depression. And she was in a bit of a state and that stayed with her up until about 2008, by which time we’d had our third baby. So our life had become very different in a short space of time. Going from no children to three. She was having problems with it. She was not herself at all. Which had an effect on everyone else around her. Then I hit 50 in 2008 and I thought I’d handled that really well. But then realised that I hadn’t handled it well at all. I started to get panic attacks and all kinds of weird shit started going on. That went on for a bit and I eventually went to the doctors because it was so weird. Even I realised there was something wrong with me. So I went to the doctors about it and he said I was suffering from severe depression and they put me on pills for that. But the weird thing about the cure for clinical depression is that is almost as dangerous about the illness itself. It puts you in a permanent state of “I don’t give a fuck”. It doesn’t really matter what happens, you don’t give a fuck. You’re in this happy little bubble.
So I had a year or two... or three... with the depression where you don’t really want to do anything. It sucks all your ambition and drive. I don’t think I wrote a song for at least three years, maybe four. And then the cure, because you don’t give a fuck, that takes away ambition, because you just don’t care. You’re just bumbling along in a buffoon like cloud. And eventually, because of the number of lovely people around me, I was made to realise that I needed to come back, to come out of that bubble and into reality. So I started to come off the tablets and come back to normal life. And as that happened, this is about the middle of 2011 I guess, maybe the end of 2011, I started to write again. I co-wrote an album with a friend of mine (Ade Fenton) called Dead Son Rising and that got me going. That got me back. Got my ambition and drive back. And at the end of 2011, early 2012, I started to work on Splinter. So that’s the reason for the gap.
When I did start to write on Splinter, the most recent dramatic thing that had happened was the depression, so I just started to write a whole load of songs about depression. Which, in a way, was the end of the cure. Because writing about it and thinking very deeply about it, once you’re actually coming out of it, was a very therapeutic thing to do. It gave me a lot of really great songs, really good material to write about and I genuinely believe it was a very important part of the process to being cured. I would never want to go through it again but I can’t deny I ended up with a pretty good album because of it. Every cloud has a silver lining, as they say...
Well, I think it was 2006 and an album called Jagged. We’d just had our second baby, just as that album came out. And my wife had post-natal depression. And she was in a bit of a state and that stayed with her up until about 2008, by which time we’d had our third baby. So our life had become very different in a short space of time. Going from no children to three. She was having problems with it. She was not herself at all. Which had an effect on everyone else around her. Then I hit 50 in 2008 and I thought I’d handled that really well. But then realised that I hadn’t handled it well at all. I started to get panic attacks and all kinds of weird shit started going on. That went on for a bit and I eventually went to the doctors because it was so weird. Even I realised there was something wrong with me. So I went to the doctors about it and he said I was suffering from severe depression and they put me on pills for that. But the weird thing about the cure for clinical depression is that is almost as dangerous about the illness itself. It puts you in a permanent state of “I don’t give a fuck”. It doesn’t really matter what happens, you don’t give a fuck. You’re in this happy little bubble.
So I had a year or two... or three... with the depression where you don’t really want to do anything. It sucks all your ambition and drive. I don’t think I wrote a song for at least three years, maybe four. And then the cure, because you don’t give a fuck, that takes away ambition, because you just don’t care. You’re just bumbling along in a buffoon like cloud. And eventually, because of the number of lovely people around me, I was made to realise that I needed to come back, to come out of that bubble and into reality. So I started to come off the tablets and come back to normal life. And as that happened, this is about the middle of 2011 I guess, maybe the end of 2011, I started to write again. I co-wrote an album with a friend of mine (Ade Fenton) called Dead Son Rising and that got me going. That got me back. Got my ambition and drive back. And at the end of 2011, early 2012, I started to work on Splinter. So that’s the reason for the gap.
When I did start to write on Splinter, the most recent dramatic thing that had happened was the depression, so I just started to write a whole load of songs about depression. Which, in a way, was the end of the cure. Because writing about it and thinking very deeply about it, once you’re actually coming out of it, was a very therapeutic thing to do. It gave me a lot of really great songs, really good material to write about and I genuinely believe it was a very important part of the process to being cured. I would never want to go through it again but I can’t deny I ended up with a pretty good album because of it. Every cloud has a silver lining, as they say...
Robin Finck appears on a number of tracks on Splinter. His guitar work on Lost and Where I Can Never Be in particular is very distinctive. What was his involvement in the process and how did it come about?
I got to know Robin really well... I did some shows with Nine Inch Nails back in 2009 on their Wave Goodbye tour. The previous time (laughs). And just got to know him really well. We got to know his wife really well too. And we became good friends. So when we moved here (Los Angeles) in 2000 and, ah, what was it... 2012. God, I’ve forgotten already! (laughs). He was one of the very first... in fact, we’d only been here for about a week when we got a call from Trent Reznor. He was having a... (laughs) this isn’t a very rock n roll story (laughs). He was having a birthday party for his little boy. It was his first birthday party. And we got invited to that. And when we got there it was just... Robin was there and Josh Homme was there. And all kinds of really cool people.
So anyway, we hooked up with Robin again and I guess... we became really good friends. And it turned out he only lives about twenty minutes away from where we bought our house in LA. So we just started seeing each other a lot. And while I was making this album he was around all the time. He and his wife were around a lot... His wife used to be in Cirque du Soleil and she’s an amazing aerial acrobat - she’s been teaching my children how to do all that. So we used to see them every week. All the time. And then at one point, Robin just asked if I would be cool with him playing on Splinter. I was blown away by that! Of course I’m going to be cool with Robin playing on my new album! He’s one of the most amazing guitar players in the world. So it was great.
I gave him some songs, he took them home to his studio and worked on them. He bought them back, all done, all mixed, beautifully recorded. Some of the most amazing guitar playing. It totally worked with the music; it was totally, absolutely sympathetic to the music. It was just absolutely brilliant. And so yeah, I was very happy with that. And he’s actually been on stage with us a couple of times. He joined us on stage for a few songs in Los Angeles a while back and again in Atlanta the night after Nine Inch Nails played there. It’s been great. And I think his contribution to those songs is just amazing.
I got to know Robin really well... I did some shows with Nine Inch Nails back in 2009 on their Wave Goodbye tour. The previous time (laughs). And just got to know him really well. We got to know his wife really well too. And we became good friends. So when we moved here (Los Angeles) in 2000 and, ah, what was it... 2012. God, I’ve forgotten already! (laughs). He was one of the very first... in fact, we’d only been here for about a week when we got a call from Trent Reznor. He was having a... (laughs) this isn’t a very rock n roll story (laughs). He was having a birthday party for his little boy. It was his first birthday party. And we got invited to that. And when we got there it was just... Robin was there and Josh Homme was there. And all kinds of really cool people.
So anyway, we hooked up with Robin again and I guess... we became really good friends. And it turned out he only lives about twenty minutes away from where we bought our house in LA. So we just started seeing each other a lot. And while I was making this album he was around all the time. He and his wife were around a lot... His wife used to be in Cirque du Soleil and she’s an amazing aerial acrobat - she’s been teaching my children how to do all that. So we used to see them every week. All the time. And then at one point, Robin just asked if I would be cool with him playing on Splinter. I was blown away by that! Of course I’m going to be cool with Robin playing on my new album! He’s one of the most amazing guitar players in the world. So it was great.
I gave him some songs, he took them home to his studio and worked on them. He bought them back, all done, all mixed, beautifully recorded. Some of the most amazing guitar playing. It totally worked with the music; it was totally, absolutely sympathetic to the music. It was just absolutely brilliant. And so yeah, I was very happy with that. And he’s actually been on stage with us a couple of times. He joined us on stage for a few songs in Los Angeles a while back and again in Atlanta the night after Nine Inch Nails played there. It’s been great. And I think his contribution to those songs is just amazing.
I saw Nine Inch Nails recently and Trent had to stop and take a moment to recompose himself after playing a track from a particularly bleak time in his life. Do you ever find it difficult revisiting tracks written in your own dark times?
Ah, yeah... there are two songs in particular that we play. One of them is from Splinter, a song called Lost, which I wrote when I was going through the depression. Me and my wife, we started to argue a lot... We had the most beautiful relationship. But there was this period when I was really struggling and, to be fair, she was also struggling, but she was just coming out of her depression but I was deeply in mine, and neither of us were ourselves. And it just started to wear on us. So I was thinking about leaving. I got desperate. And I wrote Lost pretty much the day I was going to leave. I went out that morning and just started to write down what life would be like if she wasn’t there. Because I was angry, not because I wanted to do something nice for her. I just wanted to write it all down. And then the more I wrote about it the more I realised I was just about to make the biggest mistake of my life.
And without trying to sound too corny, I kind of fell in love with her all over again, because what I wrote down was like a history of our life, in a way. Not in great detail, but there are lines there about the love shared and the things we’re been through. Are we so broken? And it just made me see her totally differently and you kind of realise that when you argue with someone a lot, you kind of just focus on the most recent argument. And you lose sight of the bigger picture. And you lose sight of the reason you love them in the first place. And like in that song, it brought everything back. And it was brilliant. It changed everything. So now, when I play that one live, that’s really difficult. Really, really difficult.
And there’s another song from a few years ago called A Prayer for the Unborn. That was written when we were trying to have children. Before we had our three, we were going through IVF because we couldn't have children naturally. To start with anyway. So we got pregnant with the first IVF attempt but there was something wrong with the baby and it was horribly heartbreaking at the time. And I wrote a song about that, the Prayer for the Unborn song. And that is also quit difficult. We’re going to be doing both of these on the tour, actually. But that can be really difficult.
You have to kind of disassociate what it’s about. You have to just try to sing the words as though you’re reading from a book or something. You have to separate emotion from what you’re doing, if possible, or you just get upset when you sing them. But then, in a way, you need to have the emotion there to deliver them properly. You have to try to find this weird middle ground. And quite often, actually very often, I absolutely don’t get it at all and I get upset and it’s really hard to sing. But it’s nice in a way. It’s nice to be singing about things you really feel deeply about. It really is. But I don’t get embarrassed. And if I get upset, I don’t get embarrassed because it’s a very important part of my life. And it deserves that emotion, I guess.
Ah, yeah... there are two songs in particular that we play. One of them is from Splinter, a song called Lost, which I wrote when I was going through the depression. Me and my wife, we started to argue a lot... We had the most beautiful relationship. But there was this period when I was really struggling and, to be fair, she was also struggling, but she was just coming out of her depression but I was deeply in mine, and neither of us were ourselves. And it just started to wear on us. So I was thinking about leaving. I got desperate. And I wrote Lost pretty much the day I was going to leave. I went out that morning and just started to write down what life would be like if she wasn’t there. Because I was angry, not because I wanted to do something nice for her. I just wanted to write it all down. And then the more I wrote about it the more I realised I was just about to make the biggest mistake of my life.
And without trying to sound too corny, I kind of fell in love with her all over again, because what I wrote down was like a history of our life, in a way. Not in great detail, but there are lines there about the love shared and the things we’re been through. Are we so broken? And it just made me see her totally differently and you kind of realise that when you argue with someone a lot, you kind of just focus on the most recent argument. And you lose sight of the bigger picture. And you lose sight of the reason you love them in the first place. And like in that song, it brought everything back. And it was brilliant. It changed everything. So now, when I play that one live, that’s really difficult. Really, really difficult.
And there’s another song from a few years ago called A Prayer for the Unborn. That was written when we were trying to have children. Before we had our three, we were going through IVF because we couldn't have children naturally. To start with anyway. So we got pregnant with the first IVF attempt but there was something wrong with the baby and it was horribly heartbreaking at the time. And I wrote a song about that, the Prayer for the Unborn song. And that is also quit difficult. We’re going to be doing both of these on the tour, actually. But that can be really difficult.
You have to kind of disassociate what it’s about. You have to just try to sing the words as though you’re reading from a book or something. You have to separate emotion from what you’re doing, if possible, or you just get upset when you sing them. But then, in a way, you need to have the emotion there to deliver them properly. You have to try to find this weird middle ground. And quite often, actually very often, I absolutely don’t get it at all and I get upset and it’s really hard to sing. But it’s nice in a way. It’s nice to be singing about things you really feel deeply about. It really is. But I don’t get embarrassed. And if I get upset, I don’t get embarrassed because it’s a very important part of my life. And it deserves that emotion, I guess.
Your songs have been covered by a huge range of artists over the years and you joined Nine Inch Nails on stage to perform Metal and Cars in 2009. Is there anyone else you would like to perform your tracks with live?
No one I could think of, really. I was actually really nervous doing my songs with Nine Inch Nails. We’ve done it a lot now. We did it in London to start with. We did Cars and Metal. And then when I came to Los Angeles and I played the shows with them there. We ended up doing Down in the Park and another one called I Die: You Die, as well as Cars and Metal. And then recently I did some shows with them in Florida and Trent wanted to do one of my 1982 songs, one of the funky little bass ones (We Take Mystery [To Bed]). But I get a little embarrassed to be honest. I’m pretty sure Nine Inch Nails fans are not really there to hear my stuff. And I feel really awkward. It’s really cool and I’m blown away to do it but...
You know, I’m actually not that confident. One of the problems I’ve had throughout my entire career is that I do have a real problem with self confidence. The good thing about it is it makes me work really hard in the studio because I’m actually riddled with self doubt. I don’t get to a studio and write something and think it’s god’s gift to music. I just find a thousand things wrong with it and work and work and work to try to become better. So I don’t really think about going on stage with other people because I would be too scared to do it. I’d kind of like to be asked, in a way, you know? I’ve done it with Nine Inch Nails and I’ve done it with Fear Factory. But generally speaking, I kind of shy away from that sort of thing.
No one I could think of, really. I was actually really nervous doing my songs with Nine Inch Nails. We’ve done it a lot now. We did it in London to start with. We did Cars and Metal. And then when I came to Los Angeles and I played the shows with them there. We ended up doing Down in the Park and another one called I Die: You Die, as well as Cars and Metal. And then recently I did some shows with them in Florida and Trent wanted to do one of my 1982 songs, one of the funky little bass ones (We Take Mystery [To Bed]). But I get a little embarrassed to be honest. I’m pretty sure Nine Inch Nails fans are not really there to hear my stuff. And I feel really awkward. It’s really cool and I’m blown away to do it but...
You know, I’m actually not that confident. One of the problems I’ve had throughout my entire career is that I do have a real problem with self confidence. The good thing about it is it makes me work really hard in the studio because I’m actually riddled with self doubt. I don’t get to a studio and write something and think it’s god’s gift to music. I just find a thousand things wrong with it and work and work and work to try to become better. So I don’t really think about going on stage with other people because I would be too scared to do it. I’d kind of like to be asked, in a way, you know? I’ve done it with Nine Inch Nails and I’ve done it with Fear Factory. But generally speaking, I kind of shy away from that sort of thing.
Gary Numan returns to Australia and New Zealand on the Splinter World Tour this month. Tickets on sale now.
Fri 23rd May - Auckland, The Studio - tickets from Ticketmaster NZ
Sun 25th May - Perth, the Astor Theatre - tickets from Oztix
Wed 28th May - Brisbane, the Tivoli - tickets from Ticketmaster
Thu 29th May - Adelaide, HQ - tickets from Oztix
Fri 30th May - Melbourne, the Hi Fi - tickets from Oztix
Sat 31st May - Sydney, the Metro Theatre - tickets from Oztix
A very limited number (15 only) of VIP meet and greet tickets are available for each city. The Gary Numan Australia & New Zealand VIP Experience Package includes:
Meet and greet tickets are available from the Gary Numan store. ** Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney meet and greet SOLD OUT**
PLEASE NOTE: Concert tickets are not included with this package and must be purchased separately in advance
Splinter (Songs from a Broken Mind) out now on CD and download.
Fri 23rd May - Auckland, The Studio - tickets from Ticketmaster NZ
Sun 25th May - Perth, the Astor Theatre - tickets from Oztix
Wed 28th May - Brisbane, the Tivoli - tickets from Ticketmaster
Thu 29th May - Adelaide, HQ - tickets from Oztix
Fri 30th May - Melbourne, the Hi Fi - tickets from Oztix
Sat 31st May - Sydney, the Metro Theatre - tickets from Oztix
A very limited number (15 only) of VIP meet and greet tickets are available for each city. The Gary Numan Australia & New Zealand VIP Experience Package includes:
- Meet and greet where you can get your own photos with Gary, bring your personal memorabilia to get signed (please limit to 5 pieces) and the chance to chat one-on-one with the Electro legend
- Exclusive behind-the-scenes access to watch and take photos of Gary during soundcheck (NO FILMING OF SOUNDCHECK)
- A Limited Edition CD featuring an exclusive, previously unreleased track and Exclusive Artwork
- A specially produced VIP Experience laminate that will give you priority access into the show at doors
Meet and greet tickets are available from the Gary Numan store. ** Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney meet and greet SOLD OUT**
PLEASE NOTE: Concert tickets are not included with this package and must be purchased separately in advance
Splinter (Songs from a Broken Mind) out now on CD and download.